solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

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Tuberous Chairs
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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Tuberous Chairs » Mon 10. Feb 2020, 16:55

Corrected Section 20 and new Section 21 uploaded.

Just read that Andre Breton, the future leader of the Surrealists, proof read the first volume of The Guermantes Way. Despite hating gay men and being a Marxist, he liked it and Proust got on with him, nominating him for an award. (Proust and Joyce did not get on on the one occasion they met) Despite Breton's efforts, lots of errors got through - Proust's handwriting and many revisions were difficult to decipher and Proust had chosen a Swiss waiter as his secretary more for his looks than his ability to write or speak French.
"why,he used to say to his friends,he used
"for getting a debutante give me Prused""

ee cummings

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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Newgatenovelist » Tue 11. Feb 2020, 17:30

Section 20 is spot PL OK and section 21 is PL OK.

That's a lovely glimpse in Proust's life. Friendships that seem superficially unlikely so frequently are productive, and I wasn't aware of this meeting of creative minds.

Does the biography you're reading contain any images of Proust's handwriting? I don't know how illegible it is. I'm afraid I don't know anything half as good as the attractive secretary, but it may amuse you to learn that Dickens believed that his terrible penmanship ensured that his manuscripts were typeset by the best, most experienced compositors. It seems rather hard on the other authors, not to mention the compositors, though it is a novel excuse for poor handwriting.

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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Tuberous Chairs » Mon 9. Mar 2020, 14:36

Sections 22 and 23 uploaded, which brings Part 1 to a close. Section 23 seems like a self-contained chapter about the grandmother's illness.

It seems a strange friendship - Breton found male homosexuality so disgusting he refused to discuss it and he booted famous names (Dali, Ernst) out of the Surrealist movement for perceived deviations from hardcore Marxist-Leninism.

There were no pictures of Proust's writing in the biography I just finished. I've Googled some images and his writing looks elegant but with lots of confusing corrections, additions and crossings out. I suspect his handwriting changed depending on how ill he was.
"why,he used to say to his friends,he used
"for getting a debutante give me Prused""

ee cummings

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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Newgatenovelist » Tue 17. Mar 2020, 22:25

I've a couple of notes. The notes for section 22 don't involve rerecording, and the pronunciation note for section 23 is at your discretion.

Are you interested in reading a biography of Breton now that you've finished this one of Proust? He seems to merit a biography of a similar length if only to grapple with the complexities of his outlook.


Section 22
10.32-10.39, repetition/alternate take at 10.41-10.49
We cultivate begonias, we trim yews, as a last resort, because yews and begonias submit to treatment.

11.23-11.32, then 11.33-11.42, 11.44-11.48 and 11.49-12.03, stumble and alternate takes
Greatly to my surprise, it was almost with effusion that he thanked me for this speech, slipping his arm through mine with that intermittent familiarity which had already struck me at Balbec, and was in such contrast to the coldness of his tone.

12.04-12.18, 12.22-12.40, alternate takes
"With the want of consideration common at your age," he told me, "you are liable to say things at times which would open an unbridgeable gulf between us. What you have said just now, on the other hand, is exactly the sort of thing that touches me, and makes me want to do a great deal for you."


Section 23
31.57-32.01
(as though the sluices of a reservoir had been opened)
https://www.lexico.com/definition/sluice

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Tuberous Chairs
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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Tuberous Chairs » Thu 19. Mar 2020, 18:40

Corrected Sections 22 and 23 re-uploaded. I'm building up quite a set of words I've always mispronounced!

I do have a 705 page biography of Breton called Revolution in the Mind. However it's hardback, so too heavy to lug around easily. If I do get round to reading it I'll probably buy it on Kindle. I'm actually a very slow reader; I read prose at the same rate I read poetry - trying to hear the rhythms. I still attempt big books though - I am taking a break from Montaigne's Complete Essays but will, in the next couple of months, start on the third volume of the Game of Thrones series - each about a thousand pages.
"why,he used to say to his friends,he used
"for getting a debutante give me Prused""

ee cummings

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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Newgatenovelist » Thu 19. Mar 2020, 21:39

Sections 22 and 23 are spot PL OK.

Not to worry. I think we all have words that catch us out. More to the point, at least with this translation, is the extensive vocabulary. The diction is delightful and varied, but many of these words simply wouldn't be used regularly and consequently would be less easy to remember. Perhaps your memory is better than mine, but even if I quite like a word, if I don't use it regularly I will probably end by forgetting it. That's already happened with one exotic offering of Moncrieff's in an earlier section. I thought 'I must come back to that', and of course I didn't!

I understand the amount of space that a large book takes up, but I think I incline to the opposite perspective. I always worry that I'll be caught out without anything to read, and as a result I tend to pack more reading material than I could possibly read even if the journey were delayed. I usually have an mp3 player for audiobooks because it's so lightweight, but printed reading matter in case the player, or sometimes e-reader or pdfs on my laptop, freezes. It's usually a print book and Private Eye, just to be safe. My bag is rather heavy, but I'm not sure what will make me change my ways at this point in my life.

It's lovely that you give prose proper attention. Not everyone does. Nor does everyone seek out longer books. It's nice to hear that you do.

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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Tuberous Chairs » Sun 22. Mar 2020, 18:56

Section 24 uploaded.

On the subject of exotic words, I once used the word floccinaucinihilipilification in context in a university essay!
"why,he used to say to his friends,he used
"for getting a debutante give me Prused""

ee cummings

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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Newgatenovelist » Tue 24. Mar 2020, 13:45

One note for section 24:

32.50-32.58
… she lowered towards my grandmother her whole life contained in her face as in a ciborium which she extended over her
https://www.lexico.com/definition/ciborium

I must ask, what was the module? Tell me more, about the essay, your uni or your course of study, if you wish.

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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Tuberous Chairs » Sun 29. Mar 2020, 19:06

Corrected Section 24 uploaded and new Section 25.

When I was studying Latin at the University of Kent at Canterbury in the late '80s I did an essay on the different treatments of Odysseus/Ulysses through literature. I wish I still had a copy.

In Homer's 'Odyssey' Polyphemus the Cyclops has been blinded and says that he had been warned in a prophecy that Odysseus would blind him and so was expecting
"a man handsome
and tall, with great endowment of strength on him, to come here;
but now the end of it is that a little man, niddering, feeble,
has taken away the sight of my eye, first making me helpless
with wine" (tr. Lattimore)
I pointed out that this could be taken as meaning that Odysseus really was short and weedy or it could be a sign of Polyphemus' floccinaucinihilipilification.

I didn't explain at the time that floccinaucinihilipilification means the act or habit of estimating as worthless. After all, doesn't everybody know that? :twisted:
"why,he used to say to his friends,he used
"for getting a debutante give me Prused""

ee cummings

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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Newgatenovelist » Tue 31. Mar 2020, 12:23

Sections 24 and 25 are PL OK.

I looked up floccinaucinihilipilification (and ciborium, and a few other words that have appeared in the notes). As with so many of the words that Moncrieff is using I think they're remarkable and want to retain and reproduce them all, but am likely to have forgotten them by the time a suitable occasion occurs.

Latin or classics at Kent sounds like an excellent course of study. I'm asking out of idle curiosity and not because I'll record them, but are there any translations you particularly like that would tempt you for another solo here?

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Tuberous Chairs
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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Tuberous Chairs » Thu 16. Apr 2020, 16:30

Section 26 uploaded.

I'm pretty sure Proust never used the word 'floccinaucinihilipilification'. I love the Kindle feature that you can touch a word and the definition will come up. I just checked what an 'alienist' is (psychiatrist).

Translators tend to be frustratingly long lived so I more often find translations that can be read by US people rather than UK rather than vice versa.

There is one translation that I have on my bucket list to try for LibriVox one day though. I would have to see how I go with a short section before committing to the whole project but Christopher Marlowe's version of Lucan's Pharsalia Book 1 seems tempting. I would want to have finished Remembrance of Things Past (including Swann's Way) though.
"why,he used to say to his friends,he used
"for getting a debutante give me Prused""

ee cummings

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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Newgatenovelist » Fri 17. Apr 2020, 15:36

Section 26 is PL OK.

Ah, you're reading on a Kindle. I haven't used one of those. My e-reader really belongs in the Smithsonian, as it's never been online. A dictionary feature would be quite useful, though.

I've come to the same conclusion regarding copyright and translators. I know it's odd to be so keen to record certain books where there is a wealth of unrecorded literature available, with more coming out of copyright every year, but so it is.

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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Tuberous Chairs » Sun 24. May 2020, 18:06

Section 27 uploaded.

The Gutenberg text has several mistakes, especially in the last paragraph (or it did when I downloaded it). lieen should read been. "towards me, scarcely" should read "towards me, seeming scarcely" and there is a parenthesis starting "have not (to give ourself" and ending By your leave). Gutenberg omits the parenthesis and changes ourself to ourselves.
"why,he used to say to his friends,he used
"for getting a debutante give me Prused""

ee cummings

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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Newgatenovelist » Tue 26. May 2020, 16:24

Section 27 is PL OK.

Thank you for the notice about some of the errors that have slipped into the text.

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Tuberous Chairs
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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Tuberous Chairs » Fri 11. Sep 2020, 18:46

Section 28 uploaded. There's a gloriously rude bit.
"why,he used to say to his friends,he used
"for getting a debutante give me Prused""

ee cummings

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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Newgatenovelist » Sat 12. Sep 2020, 16:04

Section 28 is PL OK.

I hope you're as well as can be hoped at the moment.

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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Tuberous Chairs » Sat 12. Sep 2020, 22:34

Thanks for that. Section 29 uploaded.

My family are part of the Office of National Statistics study so get regular free Covid swabbing. This means I'm one of the few who can say they are as well as can be expected. I'm also doing the Couch to 5K thing so hoping I'm getting healthier.

Hope you're doing as well as can be expected.
"why,he used to say to his friends,he used
"for getting a debutante give me Prused""

ee cummings

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Re: solo [ENGLISH] The Guermantes Way by Marcel Proust - vik

Post by Newgatenovelist » Tue 15. Sep 2020, 21:34

Section 29 is PL OK.

That's excellent news. I hope you and yours stay healthy or get healthier.

I also filled some of my newfound extra time with exercise and quite enjoyed it. Clearly I enjoyed it too much, as I'm now in physiotherapy, but I'm very lucky to have access to a number of sessions (we're overseas, so it's quite a different healthcare system). In the meantime I am hunting for physically kinder forms of exercise, which is interesting. And my husband's job is relatively secure, which is another cause for gratitude.

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